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	<title>Comments on: Can humans act utilitarian?</title>
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	<description>hosting cognitive dissidents since 2007</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18/comment-page-1#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 17:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18#comment-27</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This finding would suggest that an endeavour like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kiva.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kiva&lt;/a&gt; will be more successful than most traditional organizations that attempt to help those in need.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This finding would suggest that an endeavour like <a href="http://www.kiva.org/" rel="nofollow">Kiva</a> will be more successful than most traditional organizations that attempt to help those in need.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: pde</title>
		<link>http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18/comment-page-1#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>pde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18#comment-17</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Poofy,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I disagree that utilitarianism can be blamed for the state of the criminal justice system.  The theory that &quot;small offenses deserve small punishments and large offenses large punishments&quot; is &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_justice&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;grounded in Judeo-Christian theories of justice&lt;/a&gt;, not utilitarian ones.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;According to utilitarianism, incarceration makes sense for protecting society from people likely to re-offend, and it may make sense as a deterrent if and only if it works as one.  The communicative function is important, too.  But none of these grounds for punishment match your claim.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t believe these results show that humans have no capacity to act differently than the experiment suggests.  I think it only shows a tendency for people (or maybe just the tested demographic) to act in this way.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Other experiments should test whether the same results occur in other contexts.  Even if they do, I&#039;m sure there will be ways that people can learn to be strongly altruistic independent of the (a) and (b) condition.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I hope I haven&#039;t bitten a troll!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poofy,</p>

<p>I disagree that utilitarianism can be blamed for the state of the criminal justice system.  The theory that &#8220;small offenses deserve small punishments and large offenses large punishments&#8221; is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_justice" rel="nofollow">grounded in Judeo-Christian theories of justice</a>, not utilitarian ones.</p>

<p>According to utilitarianism, incarceration makes sense for protecting society from people likely to re-offend, and it may make sense as a deterrent if and only if it works as one.  The communicative function is important, too.  But none of these grounds for punishment match your claim.</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t believe these results show that humans have no capacity to act differently than the experiment suggests.  I think it only shows a tendency for people (or maybe just the tested demographic) to act in this way.</p>

<p>Other experiments should test whether the same results occur in other contexts.  Even if they do, I&#8217;m sure there will be ways that people can learn to be strongly altruistic independent of the (a) and (b) condition.</p>

<p>I hope I haven&#8217;t bitten a troll!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Poofy</title>
		<link>http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18/comment-page-1#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Poofy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciencethatmatters.com/archives/18#comment-15</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Utilitarianism is a prime cause of our prison mess. The doctrine of &quot;small offenses deserve small punishments and large offenses large punishments&quot; undergirds our judicial system.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Science has shown that this is an amazingly effective way to train people to take punishment breeding &quot;hardened criminals&quot;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;These studies you site are short on science and long on hype. Operationally defined &quot;altruism&quot;? This is essentially an inference of an internal quality, and the study is an attempt to hypothesize relationships about this quality. Useless.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You claim this study says something about &quot;human capacity to act&quot; - but where did it get such amazing external validity? How do you know it&#039;s not just &quot;those people&quot; in the study? How do you know its not contamination from the situation itself?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utilitarianism is a prime cause of our prison mess. The doctrine of &#8220;small offenses deserve small punishments and large offenses large punishments&#8221; undergirds our judicial system.</p>

<p>Science has shown that this is an amazingly effective way to train people to take punishment breeding &#8220;hardened criminals&#8221;.</p>

<p>These studies you site are short on science and long on hype. Operationally defined &#8220;altruism&#8221;? This is essentially an inference of an internal quality, and the study is an attempt to hypothesize relationships about this quality. Useless.</p>

<p>You claim this study says something about &#8220;human capacity to act&#8221; &#8211; but where did it get such amazing external validity? How do you know it&#8217;s not just &#8220;those people&#8221; in the study? How do you know its not contamination from the situation itself?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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